Nicole Jain ’08 has dedicated her career to public service and leadership, specifically in the realm of K-12 public education policy and management. Most recently, Nicole co-authored Our Mom, Our Superhero – A Mental Health Journey, a children’s book that provides young children with early education and tools to understand, identify, destigmatize, and manage mental health struggles from a young age. Nicole is also on the board of directors of the Pad Project, a nonprofit organization focused worldwide reproductive health.
In this week’s of the Liberty and Leadership Podcast episode, Roger and Nicole discuss her TFAS experience, the power of philanthropy, the future of education in America, and the story behind her book.
The transcript below is lightly edited for clarity.
Roger Ream [00:00:00] Hello and welcome. I’m Roger Ream and this is the Liberty and Leadership Podcast, a conversation with TFAS alumni who are making a real impact in politics, public policy, government, business, philanthropy, law, and the media. Today on Liberty and Leadership, I’m joined by Nicole Jain, a TFAS alumna whose a leader in promoting human rights and improving educational outcomes. Nicole has dedicated her career to acting as a voice for the less fortunate. Her extensive work has included promoting educational opportunity, women’s reproductive health and mental health. As the author of a children’s book on mental health and a member of several advocacy groups around the world. Nicole’s work has taken her near and far. Nicole, thanks for being with me today.
Nicole Jain [00:00:52] Of course, absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Roger Ream [00:00:55] I’m really looking forward to hearing more about the long list of things you’ve been up to since your TFAS program ended. But let’s start with a few questions about that experience. How did you first learn about TFAS and what prompted you to apply to our program?
Nicole Jain [00:01:11] Well, it was in 2008 and I was really interested in political science and public policy. And I wanted to expand you know, my programing, my internships, my experiences. And so basically I’m a huge fan of Georgetown University. And so when I saw that there was a program in conjunction with TFAS, especially the philanthropy and nonprofit management program, I was so excited and it felt like a perfect fit. So I found the program online, I got a scholarship to go, which was amazing and super helpful. And yeah, and I interned at American Institute for Cancer Research, kept in touch with all my roommates. I still talk to them, which is amazing, four to five different people who are doing very different but exciting things in journalism and policy and whatnot.
Roger Ream [00:02:02] So you left Washington with a bit of a network then?
Nicole Jain [00:02:05] Yes, with quite a network for sure. I kept in touch with my supervisor and, you know, followed up with mentoring and guidance even a few years after. So it was definitely a great place to cultivate relationships and to be in D.C.. I love Washington, D.C. If I could move there now, I’d move there in a heartbeat.
Roger Ream [00:02:24] Well, it’s about 95 today, so you might want to think twice.
Nicole Jain [00:02:28] That’s true. L.A. is pretty cool right now.
Roger Ream [00:02:32] Good. Well, let’s talk about the fascinating things you’ve done and still a relatively short career. It’s amazing. The most recent that came to our attention was this book you coauthored with your brother called A Mental Health Journey Our Mom, Our Superhero. It’s a fascinating story. You wrote it for people of all ages, really, but with a particular eye toward helping young people understand the issue of mental health. And I assume thinking that it may be their own mental health as well as a parent or a friend or someone they know. Could you talk a little bit about the origins of that and the decision to write that book because it had to be difficult given the subject matter.
Nicole Jain [00:03:20] Yeah. So the book came out of kind of a COVID project that my brother and I wanted to work on. I currently work at his mental health startup called OOTify, which I can talk about a little later. But, you know, we had some free time during COVID and it was a very personal story to us. The book focuses on siblings who are dealing with societal stigma while seeking treatment for my mother’s mental health challenges. It was definitely a very hard decision, and we had many difficult conversations as a family to talk about it, especially, you know, in the South Asian community, there’s a lot of stigma associated with depression and other mental illnesses. And, you know, the main issue that came up for us in regards to mental health was there was a clear navigation issue. Once you realize something is wrong, what do you do next? You know, what is it, a support group? Is it therapy? Is it medicine? You know what exactly should you be doing to make sure that, you know, your mom or your loved one is doing okay? So that’s why we decided to write that book. And it’s a great conversation starter for adults to start talking about mental health with their kids. The book also has some really great definitions of words like stigma, depression, mental health, support groups. And it was actually also endorsed by Ron Artest, Metta World Peace. He was a great leader in the mental health space years ago, he cited his psychiatrist for helping him. And he you know, he brought mental health to the forefront of athletics. So for him to talk about our book, it was amazing. And the last thing I want to add is that it wasn’t just about our experience. We interviewed countless doctors, therapists, young parents to make sure that it was based on evidence and not just an anecdotal experience. So that’s kind of how the book came about.
Roger Ream [00:05:13] Well, that’s interesting. A COVID project, you called it, I think, and a lot of people decided to go buy a dog. You wrote a book that is helping people today. And are you finding its way into schools and to doctor’s offices?
Nicole Jain [00:05:30] Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up. We’ve definitely sent it to a lot of private practices of therapists. One really great thing we’re doing is I went to USC, the University of Southern California, for undergrad, and we’re partnering with elementary schools that are neighboring the USC campus. And we’re training college students to implement a lesson plan that goes with the book. Which is really exciting. So we’re donating a ton of books to so many different schools and then training these tutors on how to actually talk to kids about mental health. So that’s a big campaign that’s coming up in October, which we’re so excited about. USC has been amazing and supporting our book and again, I have to say, it’s really all about cultivating relationships. I still keep in touch with my college professors, my supervisors, and they’re the ones who really like gave me the partnership and the introduction to actually do these things on the ground. So it really feels like the dots got connected when implementing this project, for sure.
Roger Ream [00:06:32] Are those initiatives you just mentioned part of OOTify?
Nicole Jain [00:06:36] Yeah, it’s in conjunction with OOTify. So OOTify, I’m actually the director of strategy for this mental health company. And the vision of the company is to lift up and nurture sustainable human mental health. So it’s a digital hub that provides help with the navigation issues surrounding mental health. We offer clinical and sub clinical services to nonprofits, universities, college students and hospitals. So we staff up based on the population that we’re working with. So it’s been a wonderful experience and yeah, it has been an extra journey for me on top of working in education as well.
Roger Ream [00:07:13] Yeah, I should mention your coauthor and your brother is Ravi Sharma and that must be interesting to work with your brother in this new company. And that’s a for profit, is it?
Nicole Jain [00:07:27] Correct, yes.
Roger Ream [00:07:28] Good. Yeah, that’s great how this all ties together so well and as a family. Is your mother a part of the promotion of the book?
Nicole Jain [00:07:40] She’s a little shy. She gets you know, a little nervous. When we brought it up and talked to her, she was like, well, what am I going to tell my friends? Like, we didn’t talk about that, I didn’t say anything to my friends, you know and what am I going to do? So it was kind of she’s a little shy. It’s more both of us that are leading the effort. But I think she’s realizing how important it is and what great feedback we’ve gotten. To be honest, she’s in full remission. She’s been great for the past five or six years now. So we’re super lucky and happy that she’s doing well.
Roger Ream [00:08:10] Well, as I recall in the interview you did with my colleague Jen Stangland, and you did mention that after some thought your mother had responded, that if this book will help even one family, it’s worth doing. And that’s just a great attitude on her part.
Nicole Jain [00:08:26] Yeah, she’s amazing. She’s a gem. So we’re so excited that she was on board. I would just add, before the mental health company that I’m helping my brother on, I was very involved in education policy. You know, I worked at Chicago Public Schools on the portfolio team and then I worked at LAUSD on their policy team. So that is my main passion, education, policy and leadership.
Roger Ream [00:08:52] And that I take it as not only have you been involved in things in Chicago and in Los Angeles, but in India as well.
Nicole Jain [00:09:01] Oh, yeah. So another big lesson I would give to TFAS students is to continue to intern and work and study abroad. In 2007, a year before working at TFAS, I worked in India and I worked at a really small government primary slum school and within six weeks we were able to teach kids conversational English. We were able to turn the school around and provide health care by partnering with local hospitals. It was such a fantastic opportunity and I felt that within six weeks we were able to turn around the school so quickly. I was like, Wow, with all the resources that we have in the States, there’s so much potential that, you know, we’re so lucky and fortunate with the schools that we have here compared to, you know, the population that I was seeing in India that I became super passionate about dedicating my career to education because of my experience interning abroad.
Roger Ream [00:09:57] Could you talk a little more about that? How did you, what was the situation and more importantly, how did you turn it around?
Nicole Jain [00:10:05] It was intense. So it was basically a classroom with about 70 kids, all grades from first grade to sixth grade. And so what they would do is they would say, okay, everybody, in your second or third grade come up to the class, everybody else in the back, do something else. Like there was just no strategy. Kids were, you know, not being taken care of. And there was no customized support. There was no curriculum when it came to teaching English. All of that was stuff that I had to kind of put together as quickly as possible to make the program work and to have some effect on students, even though it was a very short project. That’s one thing I always think about is like what happened to the kids after I taught them, you know, what was their journey? How did I impact them? So that would be interesting to go back and see and follow up on that with the students to see how big of an impact it was.
Roger Ream [00:10:58] Oh, yeah, that would be fascinating. I’m a little bit familiar with the work of a English educational analyst named James Tooley. He wrote a book called The Beautiful Tree. And he not just in India, but I know mostly in India went into these poor areas and looked at the schools. And he was just concerned about the fact of the failure to supply basic education to the poor in so many parts of the world, not just in India, but in Africa and elsewhere. And he noticed in India what struck him was that poor people had tended to create their own local schools because the government was failing so miserably and that these local schools, the parents, were holding people accountable and getting a much better education. And he’s seen that in places like Ghana, it’s often, you know, the government has no accountability, but it’s great. You got to go in there and actually turn one around is just incredible.
Nicole Jain [00:12:00] Yeah, it was a great experience and I was super young. I think I was only like 18 or 19, so that experience definitely left a mark just like TFAS did for me. I mean, because of TFAS I literally focused my life to public service and government work. So it’s definitely changed my trajectory for sure.
Roger Ream [00:12:20] And also, you’ve not only been working on the mental health issue, the issue of education reform, which we might come back to, but also in promoting human rights, particularly the rights of young girls. Right?
Nicole Jain [00:12:34] Yeah. So I recently became, it’s been about a year now. There was an organization called The Pad Project, actually. And what’s great about them, they’re a menstruation advocacy group. And in 2018, I believe they won an Oscar for their Netflix show, Period. End of Sentence. Which is basically saying that periods should be an end of a sentence, not end of a girl’s education. So they won an Oscar. They got a bunch of limelight. A lot of celebrities were interested in them. We approached each other on LinkedIn, actually. And just like, you know, I had commented on their social media here and there. And then they reached out to me and asked if I wanted to be a board member. So now I’ve been a board member for them for about a year. It’s been great. We’ve been working on strategy, fundraising, curriculum development, just anything that they need as a support, as a part time support advocate for them. So that’s one thing that I’ve been doing that’s been amazing. Another one is an organization called Lotus Petal, which builds slum schools in India. They’re serving over 30,000 students a year. You know, when they went virtual because of COVID, they got a ton of donations to get everybody, you know, an iPad and able to kind of make sure that there was no gap in education because of COVID. Great organization. I think they’re going to scale up. I’m so happy and proud to be part of that as well. So it’s been kind of exciting there. I think I’m on like six boards now and counting and I just get so excited about it because they’re all social impact organizations. They provide me with an outlet to be super creative around these type of social impact projects.
Roger Ream [00:14:16] What’s the geographic focus of The PAD Project?
Nicole Jain [00:14:20] So they focus internationally where one sector is internationally where they place menstrual machines for women in India to make their own pads and sanitary items and, you know, make sure that they’re financially independent in their community and they’re providing all these resources. That’s one. The another one is domestically, we have grants that we give to nonprofits. So it’s a competitive process, but we give grants to multiple different nonprofits and foundations that we raise money for. We’re definitely the leader in reproductive health right now, I would say.
Roger Ream [00:14:56] And I might be mistaken on this, but are you working on a documentary?
Nicole Jain [00:15:00] Yeah, I am. So I’m producing a film with some USC students that approached me. We’re working with an organization called Sahara. It is a domestic violence organization that focuses on providing support for women who were abused physically and mentally. So we’re creating a documentary on them, talking about these women’s incredible stories and how Sahara is really impacting their lives from immigration and legal services to education support to food, to basic items, to schooling for their kids, to a shelter that’s confidential and, you know, make sure that we take care about the safety of young women. So, yeah, that’s been a great project. It’s been very energizing to work with college students. I feel a little old hanging out with them, but you know, I’m trying to look young and trying to keep up with them. But it’s been a great passion project and our trailer should be ready by November, so I’d love to share it with you once it’s done.
Roger Ream [00:16:01] Yeah, I don’t know when you find time to sleep with all that you’re doing on this Lotus Petal, what’s their focus? Is it just India?
Nicole Jain [00:16:11] Yeah. Right now it’s just India. It’s in a town called Gurgaon, and they focus on just providing different education opportunities as well as health care. That’s a really big initiative that they have to make sure that kids are healthy and not only the kids, but their family members are healthy as well. So it’s a great initiative and I think it’s a very scalable program in India. Like you said, it’s not a government program or government funded. It’s private. A lot of donors in America, South Asian donors especially, have been keeping the program alive.
Roger Ream [00:16:43] That’s wonderful to hear, you know, the origins of this program you attended of ours on Philanthropy and Voluntary Service were really stemmed from one of our founders who died in 1998, David Jones. And he really strongly believed in philanthropy, particularly the kind you find locally, where people voluntarily give money and roll up their sleeves and go to work and voluntary organizations to try to make a difference, to try to solve problems. And when he died in 1998, our board moved to create that program, and we initially did it at Indiana University in Indianapolis at their Indianapolis campus. And the reason we put it there is we worried that if we did it in Washington, D.C., kind of the whole focus would be on top down solutions from the federal government. See a problem, let’s lobby Congress to pass a bill and fund it. And instead, we wanted to put emphasis on the kinds of projects you’re involved in that are, you know, let’s go to work to solve a problem here. And we have women who are being abused. Let’s shine light on it. Let’s provide them services to help improve them, improve their lives. And with The Pad Project, the Lotus Petal, this is just I think David Jones, if he were alive, would say this is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to see happen with this program. So I applaud you for all that you’re involved in, in the community and in public service.
Nicole Jain [00:18:11] Thank you. Honestly I feel like I’m happy to give back. And I have been, this year I participated for the first time in the mentorship program with TFAS. So I mentored a really sweet girl, Jada. I helped her with her resume and with her cover letter and all of that. So it’s been great to give back to those students because you know, when you’re in the program, you don’t realize the impact of it in your life until later. You know, you’re just kind of going through the motions or complaining about your internship or complaining about some of the classes and the professional development. But then when you go back to it, like I have some of my old essays from the Georgetown program and I’m like, Wow, this is incredible that I can see what I was thinking when I was so young and what the process and experience was like. So it’s pretty fascinating.
Roger Ream [00:18:59] Yeah, that’s wonderful. Let’s go back to the book for a minute A Mental Health Journey. I don’t know how you measure the success of a book like that, but I assume it is in knowing that it’s getting into the hands of the right people when they need it. How do you get it into schools? Is that a tough process?
Nicole Jain [00:19:21] So far we’ve only partnered with USC to get that done and start that process. The second thing I’m trying to do is work with school districts, with the experience that I have working at different school districts to see if we can get a bulk order in, you know, and see if it can be something that’s actually part of the curriculum for like a sixth or seventh grader. That’s something that we’re thinking about. But it’s kind of a tough process to break into. I mean, you know, it’s something that we need to continue to network with different districts and curriculum providers to see if that’s something that can go viral and whatnot.
Roger Ream [00:19:56] Yeah.
Nicole Jain [00:19:58] That’s something we’re trying to work on for sure.
Roger Ream [00:20:00] Do you have another book in you, you think any time soon?
Nicole Jain [00:20:04] You know, I was thinking about I told my husband recently, I was like, I kind of want to write a book about like turning around low performing schools. So something a little more research heavy, you know, try to do something in conjunction with maybe one of my Harvard professors or something. But I would love to write a book about like, how do you take a low performing urban school district and just in the most creative ways possible, how do you turn it around? Like, what are the steps to take to do that and how do you launch it?
Roger Ream [00:20:34] I think that’s much needed. And I do recommend this work by James Tooley, his book, The Beautiful Tree. It’s less about, you know, urban schools. It’s more about places in India where people are very poor, some urban areas, of course, but where they really work to build schools and educate their kids. He did a lot on Ghana and there was a documentary about his work too. How do you turn around urban schools if you figured it out?
Nicole Jain [00:21:01] I don’t know.
Roger Ream [00:21:02] l know it’s more than just money because often there’s a lot of money available, but accountability has to be part of it. And I say that because I think that applies not just to educational outcomes, but, you know, kids who grow up in homes where they don’t have any expectations. You know, it makes a big challenge for them.
Nicole Jain [00:21:22] It’s all about igniting passion in students and having them have something that they really care about to make effective change. But I also truly believe in paying our public school teachers a lot more. You know, I believe, you know, there’s a program for lawyers. There’s a program for doctors, like why don’t we have a three year intensive program to become a teacher and to be a teacher and to stay in the classroom? That should be incentivized. You know, the teachers don’t make a difference until their third year, their third year in the classroom. And a lot of them leave right after their second year. I’m sure you’ve heard of the program, Teach for America. But that is kind of the main issue with Teach for America. It’s only a two year program and then students leave and there’s no sustainable process to continue the education of these students. And it’s just not sustainable. So I really believe that there needs to be a better and more rigorous teacher recruitment process. And then, you know, on top of that, they need to be funded just as well as lawyers are and doctors are. I mean, they’re the future. They’re the ones who are teaching our future doctors, future lawyers, future everything. So it’s just, I think putting money where it’s needed, I think is very important, especially for people who are selfless enough to pursue a teaching career.
Roger Ream [00:22:41] Yeah, I think there’s an issue, too, at least with some teachers I know that have that passion for teaching. And then they find and it might be one reason there’s such a high turnover you’re pointing to that they quit after a year or two is there’s so much bureaucracy above them that tries to control what they can do in the classroom. And they can’t, you know, use their judgment to teach in the way they think is most important for the students.
Nicole Jain [00:23:06] You know and I was fortunate enough after USC, I knew exactly what I wanted to study. I knew I wanted to be in a central office and I wanted to turn around schools. So right after undergrad, I went straight and got my masters at Harvard and focused on turning around schools and central offices. That was like, my main thing that I was super interested in. I mean, it’s really cool. Harvard’s Education School, they have an amazing curriculum where they have multiple case studies on different central offices. And they talk about leadership. They talk about turning schools around. It’s just great, I mean, the amount of I felt like customized support I got in trying to learn about strategy and persuasion and all these different things, it was pretty incredible. And I think my Harvard education supplemented my passion and also provided me with an avenue to become an expert in a field, you know, and to support and to be in a niche field, which I learned a lot from. So that was a great experience as well.
Roger Ream [00:24:08] I did hear something just this week, didn’t pay close enough attention to it, but about growing teacher shortages around the country. And part of it’s that COVID was so difficult for teachers trying to teach.
Nicole Jain [00:24:25] Especially in rural populations, especially.
Roger Ream [00:24:28] You got to, you know, a class of kindergarten kids must be a real challenge, which is what my daughter, Faith, she’s a kindergarten teacher. And she never met students. And they’re, you know, six years old or five years old. It was a real challenge, which she didn’t enjoy, which is difficult.
Nicole Jain [00:24:49] Is she back in the classroom now?
Roger Ream [00:24:50] She’s not. But she had a baby, so that’s why.
Nicole Jain [00:24:54] Okay. That’s a legitimate excuse.
Roger Ream [00:24:57] But she just talked about how hard it was not to be able to meet the children she was supposed to, you know, teach. So you’ve stepped away a little bit from the education topic, but it’s something you want to return to?
Nicole Jain [00:25:12] Yeah, absolutely. I’m looking, I’m actually currently looking for my next full time role in education right now. So I’m kind of pivoting from mental health and going back to education policy. That’s my two like I love. That’s what I’m really excited about.
Roger Ream [00:25:27] Yeah. Well, let me ask you, you said you were a mentor this summer, which we appreciate a lot. The students love the mentoring program and you gave advice to Jada. But what kind of general advice would you give to, you know, a young person who comes through our program today? You know, not too many, about 15 years removed from when you did it. And they are passionate about public service, about trying to make a difference in the world. And, you know, they may choose a career like you did in more of the nonprofit service area. They may even go into business careers, but still looking for ways to make a difference in that regard. Do you have advice you might offer young people as to how to kind of figure out what their passion is and what direction to go in their career?
Nicole Jain [00:26:18] Yeah. I mean, I think relationships and cultivating relationships of people that you meet throughout your life is something that’s really important. So two things. One is I told Jada too, I said, I want you to make a list of all your supervisors, all your professors that you really enjoyed and all of your close colleagues and friends and put them all on an Excel sheet and keep in touch with them and put down you know, I contacted them in June and now it’s August. Maybe I can ask a question about this, or maybe they know something to support me in this way. I think that’s really important to keep all of your relationships close and continue to add in kind of like a Rolodex. The second thing that I did that I thought was really helpful is while I was at USC, one of the class assignments was to cold email somebody that you would want to be in the next 15 years out. So that’s something that was really cool. So I cold emailed like, you know, board members in education or at LAUSD I cold emailed people working at the Department of Education. And I just asked, I said, Can you be my mentor? Like I’m really interested in doing what you’re doing in the future. What can I do now to set myself up for success, to be like you? So I think it’s training the next generation to learn from each other and especially learn from elders who have so much wisdom to pass on, like yourself. I think that’s probably my biggest advice is to don’t be afraid to ask for mentorship. People actually like being mentors, and if they don’t, then they’re not the right people to have in your life anyway.
Roger Ream [00:27:50] Did you get a good response from those cold emails you sent out?
Nicole Jain [00:27:53] Yeah, I did. I mean, I keep in touch with John King, who was Obama’s department head of education. He was the secretary of education for Obama. I keep in touch with him. I bother him like once every six months just to tell him what I’m doing and asking him for advice. So yeah, I think it’s definitely a very useful tool and kids shouldn’t be afraid to ask and to learn from their mentors. So that’s the biggest advice I would give.
Roger Ream [00:28:22] Yeah, that’s very sound advice. So it reinforces the mentoring program that we do here. And do you love that mix you have of both U.S. based work and, you know, overseas work? That’s something I think we’re finding as more and more of the students coming to our program are looking for those international opportunities. Some of it’s in diplomacy and the Foreign Service and security type issues, but a lot of it’s in, you know, the NGOs internationally and you’ve managed to blend the two. But that’s something you think works really well?
Nicole Jain [00:28:59] Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think these studying abroad programs, what’s great is you learn about certain values like inclusivity, tolerance, you learn about, you know, service, the importance of, you know, doing things in evidence. And so there’s just a lot of things that you learn when you work internationally because you’re surrounded by people who are different than you and they’re doing different things and you’re learning from them in those experiences. So yeah, I definitely think studying abroad internationally is something that I honestly think should be like something that’s required in college where you have to pick a place and you have to just go for a semester. I think that is something that’s really great.
Roger Ream [00:29:40] Yeah, I think I saw a statistic just the other day that it was fewer than 5% of college students have a study abroad experience. So it’s very small. We are doing programs at The Fund for American Studies in Prague for students from around the world, mostly from eastern, central Europe in the U.S. We had a program this summer in Guatemala. We tend to do one in Santiago, Chile.
Nicole Jain [00:30:05] Well, Roger, you’re going to need to do one in India.
Roger Ream [00:30:08] Yeah, we should. We should. We used to have a program in Hong Kong and we had students from all through Asia, including India, come to that.
Nicole Jain [00:30:15] Oh, wow.
Roger Ream [00:30:16] A few years ago we decided we’d move it after all the changes taking place in Hong Kong and at the universities there. But because of COVID, we haven’t held it again since then.
Nicole Jain [00:30:26] Yeah.
Roger Ream [00:30:28] India might be the right location for it.
Nicole Jain [00:30:30] Yeah, I’d love to help you with that if you decide to do it. That sounds great. That would be an amazing collaboration.
Roger Ream [00:30:37] Yeah, it’s amazing. I have not been to India, but it’s on the bucket list. So hopefully someday.
Nicole Jain [00:30:44] Well hopefully when COVID dies down a little more, then it’ll be safer to go. Right now, it’s probably not a good time anyway.
Roger Ream [00:30:50] Okay, good. Well, this has been great. I’ve enjoyed talking with you Nicole and I again recommend the book A Mental Health Journey: Our Mom, Our Superhero. It’s based on a true story in Nicole’s own experience and that of her brother. And if anyone has those issues they’re dealing with in a family, among friends take look at this book. It’s easy to purchase on Amazon and elsewhere, and I’m sure you’ll be rewarded from looking at it. As Nicole said, I think, I’ll emphasize that again, Nicole. That, you know, just to get the definitions in there that you’ve put in there of things like what’s a therapist? What it means to have a stigma, to be helpless, to have to see a psychologist or psychiatrist so it can be a useful book, I would think. And so I applaud you and your brother Ravi for writing it.
Nicole Jain [00:31:48] Thank you so much. And we love the support you’ve given us, it’s incredible.
Roger Ream [00:31:53] Well, thank you, Nicole. Thank you for listening to the Liberty and Leadership podcast. Please don’t forget to subscribe, download, like, or share the show on Apple, Spotify or YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you like this episode, I ask you to rate and review it, and if you have a comment or question for the show, please drop us an email at podcast at TFAS@podcast.org. The Liberty and Leadership Podcast is produced at kglobal studios in Washington, DC. I’m your host Roger Ream and until next time show courage and things large and small.
About the Podcast
TFAS has reached more than 46,000 students and professionals through academic programs, fellowships and seminars. Representing more than 140 countries, TFAS alumni are courageous leaders throughout the world forging careers in politics, government, public policy, business, philanthropy, law and the media.
Join TFAS President Roger Ream ’76 as he reconnects with these outstanding alumni to share experiences, swap career stories, and find out what makes their leadership journey unique. With prominent congressmen, judges and journalists among the mix, each episode is sure to excite your interest in what makes TFAS special.
If you have a comment or question for the show, please email podcast@TFAS.org.
View future episodes and subscribe at TFAS.org/podcast.